GTM Crossroads Podcast Ep2: Writing personalized sales emails with AI

In the second episode of GTM Crossroads, Brendan Tolleson, Harris Kenny, and Zach Vidibor discuss the importance of effective email copy, market insights, and the evolution of personalization in outbound marketing, user feedback on email strategies, how data drives outbound, and the central role of CRM systems like HubSpot and Salesforce.

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Disclaimer

Please note that the GTM Crossroads Podcast is co-hosted by Harris Kenny (Founder, OutboundSync), Brendan Tolleson (Co-Founder & CEO, RevPartners), and Zach Vidibor (Co-Founder & CEO, Octave). Each episode features discussions on go-to-market (GTM) strategy, revenue operations, and sales execution from industry leaders.

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the individual speakers at the time of recording and do not necessarily reflect the official stance of their respective organizations. Statements made during the conversation may be speculative, evolving, or based on personal experience rather than company policy.

This transcript below is provided for reference and accessibility but should not be interpreted as official guidance, policy, or endorsement by any company mentioned. 

Transcript

Brendan Tolleson (00:04.579)
All right, everybody, we are back for another edition. I should probably be in the screen. We’re back for another edition of Go To Market Crossroads with my friends, Zach and Harris. Gentlemen, how are we doing today? Happy Valentine’s Day, I should say. It is Valentine’s Day as we do this podcast episode. So what are your plans for Valentine’s Day?

Zach Vidibor (00:17.578)
We’re doing it.

Zach Vidibor (00:25.052)
my god, put me on the spot. I’m about to be busted later today because there are no plans. Plans are, stay out of trouble, but that, I already blew that.

Brendan Tolleson (00:30.037)
You haven’t planned this, is what I’m hearing?

Brendan Tolleson (00:37.667)
Yeah, sounds like you’re already in trouble. Alright, Harris, what you got?

Harris Kenny (00:41.88)
Well, a year ago today, just about our second child, we went into labor, my wife was doing all the work, went into labor with our second child. his birthday is mixed with Valentine’s, so be family activities celebrating him. Otherwise we’re keeping it pretty simple. We’ve got our hands full, so no big trips to Paris or anything like that anytime soon.

Brendan Tolleson (01:07.789)
Well, I did not plan this, but you know, it’s interesting. I too have a child whose birthday is today. So my son, my son Wes is nine today. So we share that in common.

Harris Kenny (01:16.332)
There you go, okay.

Harris Kenny (01:20.811)
wow, that’s awesome.

Zach Vidibor (01:21.908)
But it’s a great excuse to not have plans for the spouse. Yeah.

Brendan Tolleson (01:23.875)
It does help. It’s not good for him, but it is good for me.

Harris Kenny (01:28.332)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, happy birthday, Wes. Yeah, it is interesting how much how much when you grow the team, how much it affects your ability to spend time together as co-founders.

Brendan Tolleson (01:37.603)
Well guys before we get in the topic today, which I think it’d be fun to talk about really around email copy So last week we got into deliverability. So hey, once you get in the inbox, how do you create a message? That’s compelling enough for somebody actually take action on that. but before we do that I thought it’d be kind of fun Maybe is there anything you saw this week that you thought was interesting or that you want to highlight? That’s top of mind for you that’s going on in the market or in the go-to-market

Zach Vidibor (01:37.974)
I love that.

Brendan Tolleson (02:06.645)
landscape. I’d love to open it up just because I think it’s a fun topic for us just to talk through a little bit. I can start if that’s helpful, but I’ll give it to y’all in case you got anything.

Harris Kenny (02:17.314)
I got a little bit of like a user, user feedback or listener feedback, I should say. I don’t know if he wants to be on the show, so I won’t say his full name, but his name is Colin, founder of a B2B SaaS company. And he is scaling up this motion that we’re talking about here. You we talked about a bit last week. He’s using instantly. And it was just like this very basic question of, okay, so I’m setting up these secondary domains, but I have my main email.

when I get a reply, like where am I supposed to reply from? And it’s like, actually that’s a lot more complicated of a question than you think. And so I think like what’s happening as like these tools are getting picked up by teams at scale. There’s these questions like, okay, well I’ve got 13 reps, 25 reps. are they supposed to be logging into like five different Gmail accounts? Am I supposed to be using my Sequencer inbox? Can they stay in the CRM? Like I want them to be in HubSpot. Where are they supposed to work out of?

And so I thought it was a really good question. And I think in general, like we’re starting to see the growing pains that come with these tactics being adopted by teams at scale. you know, the answer to him, by the way, was like, it’s best to keep that secondary connection. So you’d want to ideally, if the sequence are like instantly and smartly, they have a universal inbox. Ideally you would respond in there and then sort of post them like meeting conversion, you would roll it over to the CRM.

But I think like that one question reflects like a much larger thing of like, okay, this is great. We want to use all bound. We want to grow, but we have like internal stakeholders and process rules and fields that need to be completed or properties that need to be filled out or whatever. and so that I think is going to be what’s like the thing over the course of this year that people are to be coming to grips with of like, great, I’m in the inbox, but like that’s 2 % of my problem from, you know, our sales orgs perspective.

Zach Vidibor (04:03.232)
Yeah. I love that. think maybe slightly different, but like I was really encouraged to see this week some friends at Koala and Tofu both raised some nice series A rounds. I think they’re, I guess what excites me about that is like seeing momentum around tools that are really trying to help people like.

be more sophisticated and be really intelligent. I think not to pick on the AISDRs too much, but they got a lot of hype and lot of attention. I definitely lean on the side of the fence of like, hey, go to market is really nuanced for every company. And I think you need a tool set that can be.

tuned and dialed in a bit more and I know they’re on a same path and kind of spiritual beliefs so I was really excited to see the momentum they have and think there’s lots, everything we’re talking about I think they play into that world too so that was encouraging to see.

Harris Kenny (05:13.806)
Well, it’s like a bet on teams doing things differently, I mean, fundamentally, it’s like, there’s different ways people might tackle it, but investors and these teams and the people they’re hiring and joining them believe that things aren’t gonna stay the same, right? Over the next three to five years. I mean, if you’re raising a series A, that means you’ve got some traction.

Zach Vidibor (05:17.086)
Right, right.

Zach Vidibor (05:31.806)
Mm-hmm, for sure. All right, spill the beans, What’s your…

Brendan Tolleson (05:32.951)
Yeah, I think it’s

Well, don’t know before we do that, I think going to what something you said to Harris is like we I would love to have guests on. by all means, I think it’d be really cool to bring in folks that are doing cool things around this topic that we can all learn from because we’re all learning together. And I think the more that we can bring people into the conversation, the better. From my perspective, I think I just wrote about it actually this morning, but I’m actually wearing a shirt that says how spot on it for those who listening. They had another banger earnings report.

and what I think is interesting to this group.

beyond just the fact that they now have 248,000 customers. think they’re very forward thinking around AI. They talk about all the time. know AI is the biggest buzzword, but think just seeing some of early signals and traction that they’re starting to see really around this agents concept. I don’t know if you guys saw just the level of growth within the agent side was pretty staggering around what they’re seeing. it’s 900,000 users are starting to embrace this. And Zach, you were talking about the AI SDR, but even

the way it’s being used, not just for bots, but also being, not just for content either, but really around driving meetings and the amount of meetings they create as a result of AI assisted sales development. think there’s just a really cool traction we’re starting to see. that was the fun update for me is just seeing what’s going on in their world that we play a small, very, very, very small role in. Sorry, I got a kid in the background, so we’re gonna have to deal with that. Not the birthday boy, this is the youngest who is a…

Zach Vidibor (06:50.571)
Yeah.

Zach Vidibor (07:00.928)
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Zach Vidibor (07:05.429)
The one that’s going on time out.

Brendan Tolleson (07:09.877)
Yeah, is unpredictable to say the least. All right, guys, well, let’s get into the topic of the day that we’re really here to talk about, which is really more what’s going on, or how do we think about the copy that we’re leveraging within these emails? So I know we talked about AI, but really, how do you take advantage of this? Personalization at scale used to be like, insert first name with a generic email, and now there’s so much more things.

Harris Kenny (07:10.638)
Yeah.

Zach Vidibor (07:14.037)
Well.

Harris Kenny (07:14.318)
birthday party crasher.

Brendan Tolleson (07:39.703)
So many more things you can do where AI can be a tool, but there’s still really this aspect of relevancy. So I’ll open up to you guys, maybe as it relates to what’s changed and why should this be exciting and ultimately why is this important? So let’s start with the foundation and then we can get into some tips and tricks that you’ve seen be successful in this new world that we live in. So Zach, maybe I’ll hand it over to you to start.

Zach Vidibor (08:02.74)
Yeah. Well, this is a near and dear to my heart, of course, messaging and positioning that ultimately turns into turns into copy. I think, yeah, there’s lots of like tactical what’s the length plain text versus not like all those things we can kind of talk about. But I think, you know, when we think about copy and like what we’re trying to help our customers do. But I think it’s just like, you know, how everyone should be thinking about it is

You need to speak your customer or prospect’s language. Like how do you speak to them in words and problems and pains that they, you believe they feel, right? Like I think the real key and like where I see people being most successful is.

You don’t want your prospect to feel like they need to solve a riddle to understand what you do. It should be pretty clear, we have a hypothesis about a pain or problem you have, and here’s what we do for that. Make it real simple, make it clear, make it actionable, and it’s okay if you’re wrong. I think that’s probably the biggest thing, it’s better to have a strong hypothesis or a perspective that you lead with in your copy and your message.

than allowing your customer to figure out if this is for me or not based on some more vague and broad value proposition. I think you get a lot more…

it becomes effective for two reasons. It’s more effective because if you’re more narrow, you’re more precise, like with a copy, you’re gonna get people more likely to bite of like, okay, yeah, that’s me. You’re also like, you’re kind of constraining your test more narrowly so you can start figuring out like, okay, when I say this type of thing to this type of person.

Zach Vidibor (09:52.522)
we aren’t getting any bites. like, that’s valuable signal too, right? So I think like, you know, copy is, you know, I guess one big thing is like, it’s not just about finding what works, you need to find also what works by virtue of what doesn’t work. And if everything, if you let everything kind of breathe too much, and it gets kind of broad and wide and big values and big platitudes, it becomes really difficult to know like, all right, when it works, what worked, you know? So I don’t know, maybe that’s a…

place to start, but I’m excited to dig in on this more.

Brendan Tolleson (10:23.97)
Yeah.

Harris Kenny (10:24.428)
Yeah, I think it’s a really good start. Zach, I want to just just fling a fastball right back at you here. So, cause I really want to know, I don’t, I really want to your answer to this question. I know this is like, we were going to go sometimes high level or sometimes deep. Okay. So like old emails was just generic copy. Then it was high first name, right? Then let’s like skip ahead a little bit and you have people start using like things like, agents like Collagent to write like a templated GPT inspired email, like

Okay. So I’m emailing a CRO and I work in B2B SaaS and do a couple of bit of tweaks, but that’s like working off of generic public data set. I would love for you to just explain like just with, mean, we can talk our own shop a little bit here, like with what Octave does, like why does it matter to have your own ICP data? If you want to be, you know, using AI and you want to doing this personalization that showed up in your copy, like what’s the difference between like pulling from a public data set versus

something that you’ve curated, whether it’s in octave or it’s somewhere else, like, is it just a little bit better or is it like much different? Why is it different? I’m curious if you guys don’t mind me going deep on that.

Zach Vidibor (11:25.76)
Yeah.

Zach Vidibor (11:32.854)
Yeah, I think it’s like a good, yeah, slightly, it’s getting the heart of the matter question. I think what people respond to is like, if you lean too much on like the public stuff that’s already out there, everyone’s like, yeah, I know that like, you’re telling me about myself, got it. You know, so it’s like, you. Right, right, right. It’s like that.

Harris Kenny (11:53.804)
Right, right, yeah, yeah. Hey, as a CRO, you want your reps to book more meetings, right? It’s like, sure.

Zach Vidibor (12:01.682)
It’s important, there’s some element of, like, guess how we think about it is, like, the…

the public stuff is like, you’re copy, like you need to have some proof of work, right? And like, think it’s like, again, like I don’t think people care at the end of the day, like did AI do the work or not, right? Like these are systems we set up to hopefully be like smart and like do the work for us. But it’s like, you need a little bit of proof of work of like, we’ve done something to try and assess you’re a fit in our market and you’re a fit for X reason. And then I think that also needs to be grounded, I guess like, yeah, and like talk in our book a little bit of like,

we have a perspective, like we built a company and we built this solution for a reason and we think it’s good for you for X. And like, I think it’s like the marriage of those things, which is like, you know, it’s kind of like the proof of work and it could be how we found you. could be like why you’re relevant. It could be something very timely signal based, you know, it could be the scenario of like, Hey, we saw you do that. You know, we saw you start this GitHub repo. Like it’s.

Harris Kenny (13:03.918)
Hmm.

Zach Vidibor (13:04.373)
that code tells us you’re interested in something like super specific, right? So like you do have those moments where you can like latch onto something and like just sink your teeth into something that’s this is the reason and that’s all I need to talk about. But I think like the, I guess like the majority case is like, you kind of got to blend this like, yeah, like we got to you for a reason. I want you to like quickly pick up like why we got to you, but like here’s our story and I need you to kind of react. I don’t know.

Brendan Tolleson (13:31.043)
So if you’re…

Zach Vidibor (13:32.683)
if that answered your question or not.

Brendan Tolleson (13:35.811)
So if 1-800-Flowers was listening to this podcast episode, they should be mindful of the fact that you said you didn’t have any plans for Valentine’s Day, and that would be good trigger to get you to actually.

Zach Vidibor (13:46.006)
I’m getting about to get retired.

Harris Kenny (13:48.014)
Yeah, snooze that for 11 months. then in whatever next year, they’re like, hey, Zach, it’s coming up again. Are you ready?

Zach Vidibor (13:56.438)
Don’t blow it again, brother. But yeah, I’m curious, does that resonate with you, Harris? Or what do you think of the blend of the public versus the

Harris Kenny (14:08.3)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. mean, because we play around, I run a little bit of our own outbound. Like I sent a cold email the other day. It was a one off, I wrote it manually. And I’m gonna read it not, just because we’re on a show and it’s just helpful, I think, for people to hear it. It’s short. So I’m emailing a SmartLead partner because we integrate with SmartLead. We’re helping a bunch of other agencies sync data for their clients from SmartLead into HubSpot.

We’re finding they’re driving two to three times more leads than their clients realized before because we push over company level tracking. So any conversion is getting captured and now the agency gets credit. Can I show you the loom I made with how it works? Question mark. And I got a response like two minutes later and the interesting thing is like I have in the past sent emails sort of similar to this, but I thought of you with Octave because HubSpot has like a really basic ICP widget.

that I went through and I did this exercise and I went back and forth to chat GPT and I was like, yeah, like this is really what Octave does like the high, much higher level version of this. But anyway, I got started with it. And it was that like two to three times more leads thing. I realized like that was the key to make the copy convert. And that’s like real data. An actual agency partner of ours went into their HubSpot customer’s portal, looked into the dashboards, looked at the attribution and was literally like, there’s two and a half times more.

here that we influenced in pipeline than we thought. And then another agency did a similar thing. It was like they booked 52 meetings instead of they had only gotten credit for 17. And I think like I from the outside had always heard this and I’ve seen this copy. And even when I ran my agency before talking to clients and it always felt like people were kind of making up these numbers of like, oh, we can double year this or that or whatever. And so I do think it has to be rooted in real data.

Zach Vidibor (15:59.556)
Mm-hmm.

Harris Kenny (16:00.492)
like more meetings, I’m SCR, I want more meetings. But if you’re in your industry, reps are booking five meetings a week, and so then you say, we can take you from five to seven, that matters more. That little bit of detail where it fits. And so that was kind of my thought on copy for the week, was when I was reviewing that, like, yeah, that makes sense that you would have more impact by this amount. Not just this generic 10X, you’re…

Zach Vidibor (16:03.691)
Yeah.

Zach Vidibor (16:15.094)
Yeah. Cool. Yeah.

Zach Vidibor (16:30.132)
Right. Right.

Harris Kenny (16:30.19)
revenue or something like that. that’s kind of where I think about, I was thinking about you and thinking about why the ICP matters versus a generic like public GPT being like more better. You know what I mean?

Zach Vidibor (16:38.196)
Right.

Yeah, I think like I’m glad you read that example because like that’s like a case study and like hey I know who you are here in agency I know a tool you might use great like that that’s the proof of work right and then the copy has this inherent hypothesis of like like I know you’re anxious about like just being an appointment setter and like you you live and die by this kind of metric I can help you improve that metric and then great awesome

opt in CTA. Can I send you more? Right? Like, don’t ask me to look at my calendar and get stressed out. Like, yeah, I want to see that video. So like that, I think that was like beautiful.

Harris Kenny (17:21.794)
I do think it’s the best cold email I’ve ever written and I’ve been doing this for a while. And I was like finally like, like did I, like it made me most optimistic about what we’re doing. I was like, do I have it? That’s the thing about cold outbound I think that people don’t realize is like, if what you’re doing isn’t working, outbound isn’t gonna fix it. But it can validate if it is working, if you know. And that was why I was like, even when I was writing it, I was like, yeah, this is good. Like it makes sense. I don’t know, Brennan, what do you think?

Zach Vidibor (17:45.867)
Yeah.

Harris Kenny (17:49.518)
What are you seeing with RP and like, what copy are you seeing working? mean, this is like a big thing, difference of like inbound and marketing versus sales emails. What do think?

Brendan Tolleson (17:59.427)
I think with what you were just describing, one thing that was not caught or wasn’t said yet that I think made that effective is we forget this device. And what I mean by that is brevity is really important. So it needs to fit on a phone because I bet 90%, especially if you’re going after executives, they’re probably looking at their phone. They’re not looking, they’re not on their laptop all day long. And that example that you just shared with me,

There’s probably three sentences, maybe four. And so it can actually fit within that screen for most people to actually take action on. I think that we often forget like…

Well, what we’ve seen is that people forget how to actually write. What I mean by that is not that they can’t write, but how to actually write. So it’s one in terms of the length. Yes, it’s what Zach described in terms of hyper-targeted with value impact, but it’s also conversational. And people don’t read. They skim and scan, especially if it’s long. So I can’t tell you how many times. I mean, I got hit up probably.

15 times. I just deleted every single email that and it’s the same person. And if I don’t want to shame somebody on this podcast, if you listen, but if you email me one more time, I will blacklist you, which will go back to your domain square that we talked about before. But we’ve actually seen

Harris Kenny (19:14.702)
the

Brendan Tolleson (19:22.211)
Well, a shout out to both of guys, but a recent example that we saw, we doubled the target for our customers using Octave plus out bouncing. And so it’s, for us, it’s the things you just described. In addition to what I just mentioned of just making sure that’s very tight, relevant for that buyer. That’s what’s been working for us. And I like what you just said too, Harris, which is, or I think it was actually Zach.

Don’t force the meeting link because that does create stress. Like you gave a value add without a request. And so I know a lot of people like ask, like you want to ask for something in return, but no, it’s like give it away. There’s actually a lot more value in of just being there to provide insight as opposed to expecting something in return.

Harris Kenny (19:47.074)
Mm-hmm.

Zach Vidibor (19:50.74)
Right.

Zach Vidibor (20:02.361)
Yeah, it’s like I think it’s one thing I tell people all the time is like you’re you’re better off like try and do discovery in your cold outbound versus asking for the meeting like ask an interesting question and like you just you Engage with people right like hey, hey, what payroll system do you use like if that’s relevant, right? Like that’s so much more likely to get our system. Oh, no, we don’t use bump We don’t use ADP. We use gusto what I like and then boom like I got a little piece of info there like and like

Asking for the meeting right away, it’s just, so unlikely to convert and you have this opportunity where like people are, you know, there is like a…

you know, some level of like fiduciary responsibility for like executives and people in these leadership positions of like, I need to kind of know what’s going on. Like you can’t shut yourself off to the world completely even if you hate getting cold emails. Like there’s stuff happening out there that you don’t know about. So like make it easy to like engage with people, give them information. They are, a lot of people are going through their emails and scanning them and like just make sure those are like high quality moments that you’re creating. Like I think that that’s the idea. Like this stuff compounds over time and

Just make sure you’re putting out those good moments. It’s clear. There’s no riddle. They associate our name with cool customers and problems we solve. It’ll work. It’s gotten harder, but it’s not impossible.

Harris Kenny (21:26.414)
It reminds me of there’s a Jed Mahrle. He does app on stuff. He kind of got started at Panda Doc, but he had a classic one when Panda Doc was competing against DocuSign. He would just like, it’s hard to know if someone’s using DocuSign or not because it’s not, you can’t find it with built with cause it’s like not on their website really. So that’s not discoverable very easily. Some tools have that kind of tech, tech, technographic data, but a lot, a lot, it’s hard to find. Anyway, he would just assume because they’re the gorilla in the room. They’re the category creator, the Republic of Trader company. He would just be like, Hey,

Zach Vidibor (21:30.432)
Yeah.

Zach Vidibor (21:51.433)
Right.

Harris Kenny (21:53.782)
Like, you you don’t have to use DocuSign anymore, whatever, his emails were better than that. But you know, hey, you know, we’re better than DocuSign, here’s why. And like, almost every time, because they were so dominant, it was right that they were using DocuSign. Or, like you said, they would be like, actually, we’re using, you know, whatever, something else. So sometimes with copy, like you do all this extra refinement, but other times you just kind of, you can make some assumptions, I think, depending on your category, and especially if you’re a big challenger brand, you know, you can kind of assume a little bit.

Zach Vidibor (21:58.518)
Alright.

Zach Vidibor (22:04.98)
Right, right.

Zach Vidibor (22:09.503)
Right.

Zach Vidibor (22:20.584)
Right, right. Yeah, yeah. think that’s like, we were like talking about that before too, just like…

Don’t be shy about having a perspective and taking an educated guess. People will appreciate that more than if you’re trying to do the super personal, saw you went to this school or you previously worked at blah, blah, blah, and you’re trying to make these crazy connections. That is so much more likely to fail than like, yeah, good educated guess. I bet you use AWS and Azure.

that’s probably the case. like now use that as like the launch point for like something relevant to what the hell you do, right?

Harris Kenny (22:59.493)
I, yeah, I totally agree with that point. Especially if you compare it to the alternative. If the alternative is like weird personalization that doesn’t matter, yeah, totally.

Brendan Tolleson (23:08.643)
I

Zach Vidibor (23:09.332)
Yeah, right.

Brendan Tolleson (23:10.029)
Just to kind of bring a full circle, I know we’re about on time, but I liked how you were going, Harris, terms of like, went from cold email, then we have like, first name personalization token, to then getting into being able to capture even more personalization. Zach, I think you’re probably more on the forefront as it relates to where the market is going, candidly than I am, or probably Harris to that extent. Like, what are you seeing as like that next frontier that our audience should be aware of, and what they really can do? I know we talk a lot about AI, but what are those things that you’re seeing?

at Octave or in the market that you would say, hey, if you’re not already doing these things, go to Market Leader. You really need to start considering this for this year.

Zach Vidibor (23:45.59)
Mm-hmm.

Zach Vidibor (23:50.134)
I think maybe like one of the big things like we’re seeing on the horizon. Yeah, again, like we want to be a part of it is like there’s been the world has been like really built around like templates with variables and split testing and A B testing. like that stuff is good. And you don’t, you don’t want a million variables, but like part of the magic of AI and having more like

fluidity in your story is like, let’s not do a B testing. Like let’s do A through N testing. know, like let’s have some more good shots on goal and figure out what’s working. And it’s like, I think it’s been, know, there’s like teams have always kind of known this of like you do, you know, you get these campaigns that are kind of like, you know, this has one story, A story and B story and like.

you look at like maybe performance and it’s like, it’s hard to judge like is the copy working or not? We don’t really know. But then if you like inspect it and somebody looks at like every interaction, you start going, it’s like, really it’s like these type of people and these types of things we talk about when you’re at this type of company. And like, I think that kind of like alpha like ends up getting buried in like all these like narrow templated approaches, but like there’s stuff in there that works. I think like what we’re seeing is like, Hey, be

open the aperture of like do test more ideas at once so can really figure out like where that alpha lies. Yeah like what’s what’s getting picked up in the market?

Brendan Tolleson (25:22.563)
And what about, and maybe as we wrap up, Harris, or feel free, Zach, too, on this one, it’s, I think there’s always just a mindset that these type of tactics are really designed for, like,

we think outbound, whatever we’re to call it, whatever that word is, but prospecting for a new customer. But I think what we’ve, at least I’m saying for myself, I shouldn’t speak for everybody. It seems like there is just as big of an opportunity, if not bigger, for your own like nurture database. And so instead of getting into like these traditional nurture campaigns, there seems to be a really…

I think a really exciting opportunity now to say, like instead, you have this database now over a period of time, like how can we start to take those signals to actually drive something with all this technology that’s now been created? So I don’t know, Zach Harris, if you have any thoughts on that as we wrap up, because I think that could be an interesting topic.

Harris Kenny (26:14.974)
I mean, I totally agree with that. I mean, I’ll just answer briefly, which is that like, I think the CRM needs to be the place that this data lives and you need to hook other things into it to be able to monitor signals. And ideally human beings are making these judgment calls of like, when’s the right time, what’s the right message. And they’re using automation and agents and other tools to help them do that efficiently.

Zach Vidibor (26:36.682)
Mm-hmm.

Harris Kenny (26:39.214)
And I think that if we start monitoring companies earlier, we can send them better messages when things come up. So I totally agree. To me, the linchpin for that is the CRM and is the process in the CRM and the data hygiene and the like hierarchy of like how properties are set up and having the right views for the right reps and you know, the stuff that RP does. I mean, to me without that, it’s you’re just. So I agree, but only if you have a foundation under your feet to do it.

Otherwise, like you’re better off, it’ll be easier to just go rip some lists from databases than try to do this with like a, like a bad system, I think. Cause you’re just going to annoy people. You’re going to email the wrong people and you’re going to email customers and you’re to email like, you know, former employees. you have, I mean, who knows, you know, so yes, yes, but only if, only if you have a good foundation, think. Yeah.

Zach Vidibor (27:31.83)
Yeah.

Brendan Tolleson (27:32.035)
Sounds like good future episode. I’ll let you noodle on that one as well.

Zach Vidibor (27:35.998)
Yeah, I’ll end with a quick amen to that. yeah, if all this stuff, if all this experimentation happens in a, you know, the satellite office down the street, like, it’s not going to work. Like, it needs to be part of the part of the mothership. amen.

Brendan Tolleson (27:51.157)
I think that’s crazy, not crazy. I do think there is this idea that I can just do it outside of that and just continue. I think testing to your point is really valuable, but if you’re not tracking and monitoring, then you’re really doing it yourself and ultimately the customer disservice.

Alright guys, well know time is up, it was great catching up with you guys. Thanks for the tips and tricks as it relates to email copy. We’ll get back at it for another episode of Good Mark and Crossroads next week, but until then, have a great week. Zach, hopefully you figure out some plans for Valentine’s Day and Harris. I hope your birthday party goes well.

Zach Vidibor (28:24.154)
Alright, right. Episode 2 in the bag onto the real important stuff. Alright, see you guys.

Brendan Tolleson (28:28.003)
See you guys.